Luc Montagnier, 2008 Nobel laureate, will follow the steps of Jacques Benveniste

“HIV discoverer and 2008 Nobel laureate Luc Montagnier announced earlier this month that, at age 78, he will take on the leadership of a new research institute at Jiaotong University in Shanghai.He plans to study electromagnetic waves that emanate from the highly diluted DNA of various pathogens, which can reveal the bacterial or viral origins of many conditions, including autism and Alzheimer’s disease.” Martin Enserink, “Luc Montagnier: French Nobelist Escapes “Intellectual Terror” to Pursue Radical Ideas in China,” News of the Week, Science 330: 1732, 24 December 2010.

Montagnier claims that “we have found that DNA produces structural changes in water, which persist at very high dilutions, and which lead to resonant electromagnetic signals that we can measure. Not all DNA produces signals that we can detect with our device. The high-intensity signals come from bacterial and viral DNA. We have found these signals coming from bacterial DNA in the plasma of many patients with autism, and also in most, if not all, patients with Alzheimer, Parkinson’s disease, and multiple sclerosis. It seems that products from gut bacteria end up in the plasma and cause damage to the brain.

Montagnier defends Benveniste (“I think he was mostly right, but the problem was that his results weren’t 100% reproducible”) and homeopathy (“high dilutions of something are not nothing, they are water structures which mimic the original molecules”).

“I can’t pursue this research in France because of French retirement laws, I’m no longer allowed to work at a public institute.”

“Aren’t you worried that your colleagues will think you have drifted into pseudoscience? No, because it’s not pseudoscience. It’s not quackery. These are real phenomena which deserve further study.”

‘No comment’ is my only comment.

BTW: The work of Luc Montagnier is not pure homeopathy, because he uses electromagnetic waves inside his hypothesis, as clarified by Harriet Hall, “The Montagnier “Homeopathy” Study,” Science-Based Medicine, Oct 20, 2009.

BTW2: L. Montagnier, J. Aissa, E. Del Giudice, C. Lavallee, A. Tedeschi, G. Vitiello, “DNA waves and water,” ArXiv, 23 Dec 2010.

“Some bacterial and viral DNA sequences have been found to induce low frequency electromagnetic waves in high aqueous dilutions. This phenomenon appears to be triggered by the ambient electromagnetic background of very low frequency. We discuss this phenomenon in the framework of quantum field theory. A scheme able to account for the observations is proposed. The reported phenomenon could allow to develop highly sensitive detection systems for chronic bacterial and viral infections.”

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5 Responses to Luc Montagnier, 2008 Nobel laureate, will follow the steps of Jacques Benveniste

    Dear Professor LUC MONTAGNIER,
    I have gone through your recent works on high dilution principle and was highly influenced by the same. It has rightly been said that Professor Jacques Benviniste was the ‘Galileo’ of the modern age. I am sending herewith the summary of two of my published works, I have tried to send you my detailed works through email but failed. I have even sent my entire works to Professor Benveniste in 2003, when he was alive, on his request.
    a) Chattopadhyay, S. Proposition of a new system of medicine based on tolerance principle. Med. Hypotheses; 59(2): 191-203, 2002
    b) Chattopadhyay, S. Biomathematical modeling for diluted drugs. Med. Hypotheses 61(1): 56-59, 2003
    The main point of controversy, as I think, so that homeopathy is not getting substantial importance in mainstream medical science is not due to lack of experimental support, but due to the dearth of a self-explanatory model. The first point of objection is high dilution beyond Avogadro’s limit and the second is the science of ‘proving’. It may be advocated that diluting away of molecules is possible so long as the solution remains homogenous. When homogeneity is lost the Avogadro’s limit does not exist. We know that water has a high dielectric constant (= 80), so it can dissolve almost every solute molecule, but during ritualized succession and infinitesimal dilution, where the number of solute molecules is depleting drastically, the number of solvent molecule covering the surface of solute molecule becomes ever increasing. In other words, the entire surface of solute molecule becomes supersaturated with solvent molecule and the dielectric constant falls. Moreover, addition of ethanol (Dielectric constant = 24) to aqueous medium causes further fall of dielectric constant of the solvent. As a result, the solute molecules become more concentrated towards the bottom of the vial and a critical dilution is reached. If one tries to transfer a drop of such dilution to the next vial of fresh ethanol, most of the solute molecules gaining much higher speed than the solvent molecule rush to the next container. Hence, zero molecular stage is never reached, and a few molecules remain. Succussion is comparable to sonication, which is used in the mainstream medical science to prepare drug loaded liposomes in order to transfer minimum quantity antibacterial, antitumoral and anticancerous drugs to the target tissue. Ethanol molecule has a polar hydrophilic (-OH) head and a very short hydrophobic tail. Although, it does not form visible micelle or liposome, it may be presumed that during sussussion ethanol forms bilayer around hydrated drug molecules, because after each succession numerous tiny bubbles evolve and the solution becomes frothy, characteristic changes also appear in NMR spectra. With the increase of potency the number of ethanol molecules, forming protective sheath around drug molecules increases. When the medicine is applied to human body it strikes the lipid bilayer of a cell in an enormous speed, so that entry of drug molecules to the ‘interior’ of a cell even up to nucleus is possible. Thus, the drug becomes ‘penetratingly efficacious’, as Hahnemann has said, with the increase of potency. After reaching the interior-most part of a cell it binds the minute transcription factors, which can arrest synthesis of specific enzymes, so that ‘proving symptoms’ can be induced even in a 200 potency drug when applied in a higher dose to a healthy person. The patient, where the same transcription factor is originally lacking, can be stimulated when minute dose of the medicine is applied. Ultimately, the worst affected cells, which cannot bear the stress, die, and the healthier cells multiply in the diseased tissue. So there is a slight aggravation of symptoms prior to recovery. Similarity of symptoms between patient and ‘prover’ reflects that the ‘prime cause’ of a natural and artificial disease is the same, i.e., depletion of a specific transcription factor, and stimulation of the same is curative. Hence, theory of ‘similia similibus curantur’ is thoroughly justified.

    Please let me know your opinion.
    With Regards
    Yours Sincerely
    Dr Sanjib Chattopadhyay,
    Head and Associate Professor,
    Dept of Zoology
    [A Govt Sponsored Degree College]
    111/2 BT Road ,
    Kilkata 108

    • Kalyan Deb says:

      Now I am a Retired Associate Professor of Physics and have somewhat dissociated from the academic pursuit of natural science. But once upon a time I used to argue vigrously over empirical proof of efficacy of homoeopathy because on two occasions the unbelievably diluted medicines worked on me.
      In 1980, I had a peculiar infection. Pus with disgusting odour emanated from inside my throat. Octogenarian Dr N. Basu of Bagnan cured me. Again in 1982, I often had a sticky intense pain in my upper abdomen again to be cured by the same miracle medicines by the same doc. During those years I spent hours debating with colleagues and also wrote an essay in a Calcutta magazine “Bigyan O Bigyan Karmi” on why it might work.
      I think that Contonian model can explain homeopathic dilution more efficiently than the model of Chattopadhyay.
      Kalyan Kumar Deb

      • According to Contonian model developed by Berliocchi and Conte, the pharmacological effect of high dilutions or Benveniste affair, as well as the emission of radio wave in succussed non-molecular dilution of nitric acid (shown by NMR studies of Yves Lasne) is due to Contonian appearance of remanent wave. The word ‘remanent’ has already been used in magnetism (magnetization of iron in a magnetic field), which they used to explain memory of water. A phenomenon of ‘remanence’ exists effectively when matter disappears by dilution. It means a certain form of “memory” exists, but this concern the memory of the emptiness. The above workers have taken the Hahnemannian parameter (CH, centesimal dilutions) as the basis of conton unit. Conte statistically correlated Hahnemann’s centesimal dilution with phase displacement of remanent wave to determine a new parameter H, called Contonian frequency. The NMR study shows that the evolution of the Hahnemannian Contonian phases occurs according to the Hahnemannian parameter that varies from 1 to 60 CH. The phase displacement of the non-succussed water appears clearly. The nitric acid was found disappearing progressively in the medium, but being still represented by its remanent wave in the solution. These two elements behave like two different notes of music, each of them having its own frequency. This experiment clearly shows that physical distinction between non-molecular dilution of a material and its solvent is possible, not only in living system, as claimed by Benveniste, but also by means of physical experimentation.
        Modern quantum physics does not believe that absence of matter indicates absence of energy, but the opposite event is true. The disappearance of drug molecules with high velocity during dilution leads to a dislocation in the solvent. It is known as a ‘singularity’, a small but highly energized area of space. This singularity might be termed a ‘white hole’. It can be contrasted to ‘black holes’ in which matter is super-dense. It is defined as a region of the space-time having an infinite density of matter. The appearance of a singularity in infinite dilution induces a wave, which is actually the remanent wave. We know that, any mass in a reference frame occupies some three-dimensional space and it is extended to time (the fourth dimension). In the usual frame, the mass is uniformly spread in the space-time. It means the mass is homogeneously distributed. Now we imagine a different frame, considering the mass as being non-uniformly spread, and non-existing in the cone of the future of a point, where the particle has disappeared, the apparition of a non-trivial quantum field occur having the same unit as the electromagnetic field. Such a field can emit remanent wave. Berliocchi and Conte have applied the theories of higher mathematics and physics in defining cone of future, white hole and remanent wave, these were theory of ether of Berliocchi, Zermelo-Frenkel theory, theorem of Levy and Solovay, Feynman and Neumann measures. They have defined the relative quantum field by ether theory, which is non-trivial in the future cone at a certain point, where the mass in relation to space-time equals to zero. More precisely, such a quantum field they called “remanent wave of a white hole”. Emission of radio waves from white hole can explain the experiment of Luc Montagnier, where ultra high dilution of DNA can emit radio waves. In spite of that Contonian model, being a physical hypothesis has certain fallacies-
        1. The existence of “singularity” and “white holes” merely by dilution, which are the integral part of Contonian model, has not been experimentally proved.
        2. If we consider subatomic particles are the sources of information it would be very much transitory, because most of such particles are extremely unstable in nature. Even electrons cannot remain in higher orbital by absorbing energy for an indefinitely long period. Moreover, a subatomic particle cannot gather the total information of a complete molecule. If it does so (viz., “hyperproton”), how would it be able to transmit information to living individual is not clear. If “hyperproton” does exist and we consider remanent wave is a property of the same, it would still not persist in a two-year old homeopathic medicine, which retains its therapeutic power.
        3. At higher dilution, surface absorption of solute molecules increases greatly due to increase of motion of the molecules, so that glass of the vial may become contaminated with drug molecule. For that reason, it is difficult to remove the faint smell of an odorous liquid from a glass vial, even by repeated rinsing with distilled water. Dilution of nitric acid prepared by Lasne was according to Korsakov’s method, by emptying and refilling the vial with the solvent leaving a drop of the previous dilution. Some workers argue that Contonian appearance of remanent wave (Yves Lasne experiment) is merely due to soda glass contamination, because it does not appear in experiments replicated with silica glass tubes.
        4. Alteration of time dimension of a matter (cone of future), as expressed in Contonian model, simply by dilution and succussion seems to be very absurd.
        5. It is well known that several chemical antidotes (e.g. Camphor, Vinegar, Perfumes etc) can nullify the effect of homeopathic drugs on the patients. It is not supportive to wave like nature of medicine.
        6. If Contonian model is true Benveniste experiment would have been 100% reproducible, but it is actually not so. If dilution be the only criterion to increase energy level, a single drop of medicine could cure a large number of fishes, suffering from ulcer (with identical symptoms) in a pond.
        On the other hand, Chattopadhyay’s Fluvial Molecular does not suffer from the above shortcomings and it can explain both the cause of success and failure of Benveniste’s experiment.
        Dr Sanjib Chattopadhyay,
        Associate Professor,
        Dept of Zoology,
        BKC College
        Kolkata 108

  2. Chiranjib Pal. PhD, Department of Zoology, West Bengal State University says:

    Please justify your work by experimental evidences.
    Good luck.
    Chiranjib Pal.

  3. Sanjib Chattopadhyay says:

    In most natural chronic diseases, it is seen that over or under secretion of a protein factor or particular enzyme is responsible. It causes several pathological ailments. Over secretion of a known deleterious enzyme, when found responsible for the disease, a suitable competitive inhibitor, having high affinity for the same, is applied as a medicine, in a conventional allopathic practice. It can suppress the particular enzyme activity for all the patients, irrespective of their personal identity, so that it might be called a generalized treatment. Similarly, pathological condition due to mal synthesis of an enzyme may be recovered by supplementation of its product. Therefore, if the malefic enzyme is well known, a strong inhibitor of the same can give comfort to the patient. This is actually a suppressive method of treatment and applicable to all the patients suffering from the same ailments and no individualization is required. Sometimes, product of a known deficient enzyme is supplemented, which is also a suppressive method. However, when the enzyme is minute, unknown and multiple, the treatment becomes more difficult. Considering the fact that no single enzyme species is responsible for the disease in all the patients, individualistic method of treatment has been devised. As for example, not all the chronic patients of a particular disease might be showing the same kind of deviation in their protein profile. Hence, patient-specific treatment is required.
    Mainstream medicine has already started to apply biotechnological tools for the diagnosis of specific morbidity as well as for “individualization of treatment”. Protein profile test, proteomics, and drug screening are now becoming an indispensable part of modern ‘allopathic’ treatment for chronic patients. In such cases, it is found that several metabolites, including deleterious protein factors or enzymes in affected tissue remain higher than its normal quantity, while other beneficial ones are deficient. The latest biotechnological device (molecular medicine) detects the most abundant deleterious enzyme that is responsible for disease of individual patient, screens out a perfect inhibitor of that enzyme and applies the same compound as a medicine to inhibit the same very effectively. The inhibitor is preferably a ligand of the deleterious enzyme and popularly called “hit compound”. As the medicine is applied in a very small amount, there is a very little chance of affecting other tissues.
    To ensure permanent cure to the patient we may design an alternative approach, which is technically similar to the above, but philosophically opposite. In case any abundance of deleterious substance is seen, it may be due to malfunction of its upstream regulatory mechanism. In the above-mentioned patient, the over-secretion of the deleterious protein is actually due to a loss of regulation over an upstream protein factor, might be located even in a quite different tissue. Suppose, a minute enzyme, much upstream to the target, is found deficient. It would cause the deleterious increase of enzyme of higher molecular weight and pathological symptoms would appear. Partial inhibition of the minute regulator protein is possible by the ligand-inhibitor of the same, which can be screened out from hundreds of radio labeled probes. If the deficient protein is artificially inhibited within the living system, by this way, it may bring stimulatory effect over the synthesis of the same due to the operation of compensation cycle (positive feedback loop). There might be a difficulty in practical implementation of the method. We know that the minute protein factors, which causes blockage in the upstream metabolism generally remain protected at the innermost compartment of the cell; so that the ligand-inhibitor might not be penetrating enough to reach there. We may overcome the trouble by potentizing the medicine with ample of alcohol, which increase its penetration power, proved by some experiments.
    The generation of cells that can undergo compensation cycle more actively would increase in number within the tissue, while the incompetent ones would fall. As a result, the metabolites would start flowing properly through their normal path. It would check overflow of some metabolites as well as to rectify deficiency of others. Ultimately, the over-synthesis of deleterious enzyme would automatically be checked and no separate measure would be required. The minute dose of ligand-inhibitor of the minute deficient enzyme can be used to bring inhibitory effect as its primary action and stimulatory effect as its secondary impact. The non-radioactive form of the successful drug should be dissolved in distilled water and applied upon a healthy person (prover) in high dose; he would show all the combination of symptoms like the diseased individual due to high degree of blockage of the responsive upstream metabolic pathway. The same drug in minute optimal dose may aggravate the disease symptoms of the patient a little, but would ultimately cure him permanently and no more continued application of the medicine would be required. As the primary effect of medicine on the prover and the patient would be similar, the method, as blueprinted above, might be regarded as a perfectly homeopathic one.
    A homeopathic doctor, though does not necessarily has a sound knowledge on biotechnology, he indirectly follows the same protocol. He attempts more than one medicine upon a chronic patient, one after another; when the right one is applied, it successfully binds the suitable fraction of the target enzyme; the disease becomes cure in course due to stimulatory effect. An efficient practitioner can minimize the number of hectic trials by careful observation of the concomitant symptoms, associated to the disease proper. It is possible that introduction of biotechnological method in homeopathy would do the same more easily and confidently. The only difference between the conventional homeopathic method and that of the proposed one would be lying on that the screening test of the former to find out the suitable remedy is performed inside the patient’s body (in vivo) but in case of latter such test is to be made outside (in vitro).
    Experimental verification to the application of toxicological proving was not made in human beings so far due to ethical ground, but increase of tolerance by the pre-treatment of different toxicants were made on subhuman creatures. There is an increase of tolerance of toxicant to an individual by the pretreatment of the same in minute or homeopathic doses. Experimental lead acetate treated rats show impairment of Amino Levulinic acid Dehydratase (ALAD) activity in blood and anemia. Some of the experimental rats were isolated and administrated homeopathic drugs “Plumbum” (prepared from lead salt) and “Opium”. They showed significant recovery. There are several similar examples also, where pretreatment doses are much higher, and post treatment doses are minute for the same toxicant that causes recovery in rats from the effect of the same. Similar studies were made on dogs also. Cadmium induced nephrotoxicity and hepatotoxicity was prevented in rats by pretreatment of minute dose of selenium. It is evident that minute dose pretreatment of a toxicant sometimes brings protection against different toxicant. Similar result was found by the pretreatment of cadmium or molybdenum to prevent mercury accumulation and mercury toxicity.
    The best example of application of homeopathic principle in the field of mainstream medicinal science is was undoubtedly vaccination, though it was developed earlier than the time when Hahnemann developed homeopathy as a parallel line of medicinal system. All the vaccines developed so far has eradicated smallpox virus from the world, decreased child death rate several fold, would uproot polio attack from the globe very soon and the research work for vaccination against AIDS is in progress; all indicate the victory of the noble principle. The statement “vaccination principle resembles similia principle” may be subjected to debate, but simply one thing we should remember: if a group of healthy persons were injected with a high dose of cell-free bacterial proteins, they would surely develop some symptoms associated to that organism. This is due to the presence of bacterial antigens. Hence, antigens are acting against ‘vital force’ and as a result, antibodies are produced due to reaction.
    The system of vaccination, so long, was applicable to all healthy individual as a preventive measure, mainly in the disease prone areas. Vaccination does not require previous information about their natural immunity, so that a healthy person with all possible resistance against a pathogen might be subjected to the process. It would cause unnecessary increase of antibody production against a particular group of disease-causing organism, while the subject would be deprived off from natural resistance against other dissimilar group of pathogens. Moreover, the disease causing antigens are of so variant type that the single antigen to prepare vaccine is very difficult to sort out, especially when the etiology of the disease is not well known. Herein lays the utility of patient-specific therapeutic vaccination, more closely resembles homeopathy, which has recently been introduced in the field of medicine. In a generalized way, the pathogen associated molecular pattern (PAMP) of a disease is reflected by the presence of some immunoglobulins (antibodies) and small peptides in blood. Even when the etiology of the particular disease is not well known, it can be marked well by the presence of these protein biomarkers, associated to the disease proper. The deficient protective mechanism is thus revealed and subjected to vaccination. Surprisingly, the biomarkers themselves can be used as an important tool for therapeutic vaccination. Here the antibodies, as they act as biomarkers, can be used as antigens of vaccination. It was found very effective for the particular families prone to a specific disease, e.g., cancer, lymphoma etc or at the beginning of the ailments, when the patient remains asymptomatic. The concept of homeopathic medicines called “Nosodes” is similar to the above method, which was discovered much earlier.

    Dr Sanjib Chattopadhyay,
    Associate Professor,
    Dept of Zoology
    BKC College

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